Gaia Hypothesis-Can there be a feedback without purpose?

[07/06, 4:57 pm] Dr Rakesh Biswas: https://www.quora.com/Why-cant-we-dig-deeper-than-12-2-km-into-the-Earth

[08/06, 7:57 am] Dr Rakesh Biswas: I'm head over heels into the gaia hypothesis. 

One individual cell inside the human universe is the Earth and we don't know which one. Can you guess? 

Also what's the temperature difference between the surface and core of the cell? How do we even measure temperature?

[08/06, 10:18 am] Dr.Dinesh Datta: We can measure temperature difference between surface and core of cell using thermocouples

[08/06, 10:24 am] Dr.Dinesh Datta: Or microcalorimetry

[08/06, 11:03 am] Dr Rakesh Biswas: Any data anywhere?

[08/06, 12:08 pm] Dr.Dinesh Datta: Cellular metabolic heat (ΔPM) is produced from intracellular reactions, carrying information about particular processes thus indicating the status of organisms. ΔPM originating from a single cell is at pW level, making its determination based on the calorimetry technique challenging. Microcalorimetry, evolved from original calorimetry, provides an opportunity to look inside the cell by monitoring ΔPM at single-cell level due to its high resolution. In this review, we discuss the microcalorimetry-based techniques utilized to measure ΔPM, as well as its extended applications. We first introduce the characterization of microcalorimeters and propose potential methods to improve the performance of these devices. Then we focus on ΔPM measurements using microcalorimeters both in microorganisms and mammalian cells. We also review the applications of ΔPM measurements for fundamental metabolism research and drug susceptibility tests. The measurement of ΔPM at single-cell level is challenging shedding light on cellular processes and enhance our knowledge in this field.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S016599362100176X

[08/06, 12:13 pm] Dr.Dinesh Datta: Development and Assessment of a Miniaturized Thermocouple for Precise Temperature

Measurement in Biological Tissues and Cells

Onnop Srivannavit 1

, Rakesh Joshi 1

, Weibin Zhu 1

, Bin Gong 3

, Stuart C. Sealfon 1

, Theodorian

Borca-Tasciuc 4

, Angelo Gaitas 1, 2

1 The Estelle and Daniel Maggin Department of Neurology, Icahn School of Medicine at Mount

Sinai, New York, NY 10029, USA.

2 BioMedical Engineering & Imaging Institute, Leon and Norma Hess Center for Science and

Medicine, Icahn School of Medicine at Mount Sinai, New York, NY 10029, USA.

3 The University of Texas Medical Branch at Galveston, Galveston, TX, USA

4 Mechanical, Aerospace & Nuclear Engineering, School of Engineering, Rensselaer Polytechnic

Institute, Jonsson Engineering Center, Troy, NY, USA

[08/06, 12:16 pm] Dr.Dinesh Datta: Is it adipocyte?

[08/06, 12:18 pm] Dr Rakesh Biswas: So no one knows the temperature differences between the surface of the cell earth and it's core?

[08/06, 12:19 pm] Dr.Dinesh Datta: Yet

[08/06, 12:26 pm] Dr.Dinesh Datta: Regarding Gaia hypothesis...

Schrodinger told something like...'Biological systems feed on their own negative entropy' the evolution of planets and planetary systems from mostly hydrogen clouds to recycled stellar material to planets within star system seem to mirror this

[08/06, 12:27 pm] Dr.Dinesh Datta: Stars likewise are born grow reproduce evolve and die..This raises another question...

[08/06, 12:28 pm] Dr.Dinesh Datta: Does Gaia perhaps have a bigger brother Apollo?I leave it to you with greater understanding of Hinduism to continue the analogy of Universe.

Dalai lama also pointed out that study of quantum interaction and spirituality are 2 sides of same coin

[08/06, 12:32 pm] Dr.Dinesh Datta: I don't see how this is a difficult concept.It seems pretty simple.And actually,Earth may very well have mechanism for being self replicating(on enormously large time scale).So it's possible we might terraform other planets.At one point,could earth be considered a living thing,as it meets this definition?

Skeptics like to call it woo because new age people like to think it means earth is a conscious being-when it isn't what Gaia hypothesis tells

[08/06, 12:34 pm] Dr.Dinesh Datta: The fact that earth that the earth seems to meet many of requirements of living things is because it is made up of living things..Just like our body is composed of individual living things(aka cells).It's a natural emergent property..

[08/06, 12:34 pm] Dr.Dinesh Datta: A fractal of scale,maybe

[08/06, 12:34 pm] Dr.Dinesh Datta: Can we have feedback without purpose?

[08/06, 12:42 pm] Dr.Dinesh Datta: The thing is people who claim to be skeptic(me most of the times too) appear to be skeptic only in certain areas..That's the problem.It is very hard for people to be near objective in their standing because we are always under influence of culture/economic standing.

That maybe a reason for many of skeptics to not give a thought that free will is an illusion.As well,the problem of my gen/new age crowd is that they are rarely equipped with principles of scientific thinking and general understanding of science.

I think there is truth to Gaia theory/hypothesis.There can be feedback without purpose.There is no purpose but there is always atleast a cause.Nature doesn't actually have a purpose.Like asteroids slamming into each other..what's the purpose in that?We humans have control feedback in form of homeostasis.There is also control feedback in atmosphere and in refrigerators too.Feedback is necessary in order for things to sustain itself(aka Vishnu).

I guess there's much thought which should go to theory of abiogenesis

[08/06, 12:47 pm] Dr.Dinesh Datta: The concept of life has been redefined many times for good reason..could it be that life is a complex ,reactive machine that responds to environment?If I flash light into your eyes..brain responds immediately.If u don't eat,u get sick.so obviously natural laws effect living systems..

The sun is not alive by any human definition yet supports life for all(Tat Savitur Varenyam).

If sun was removed,life on earth would have hard time existing.An artificial neural network is not alive yet can facilitate life on earth.One of the reasons why humans can do more to affect environment is because of larger brains and particularly Neocortex.None of that makes us 'better' though.It means we have responsibility for using our abilities to we have been given by biological evolution for making planet that is sustainable.(aka Dharma)

[08/06, 12:55 pm] Dr.Dinesh Datta: We can also explain same Gaia hypothesis in biochemical terms..

We can identify 3 types of processes.

1.Process

2.Cyclical process

3.renewable cyclical process

Process has a defined start and end.

Cyclic process has no start or end but has loss

Renewable cyclical process has no start no loss no end.

Planet is example of renewale cyclical process.The system is closed(in thermodynamics terms).The system boundary is atmosphere which neither looses nor gains to space so system is in equilibrium..

If we consider animals existence ie from birth to life and exchange of its atoms with planet ie animal lives-animal dies-decomposes-planet absorbs-mother animal feeds on planet-mother earth gives birrh to new life..This is a cyclical process..

If you consider animal existence from birth to life and exchange of energy with the planet-ie.animal lives,dies,it's energy is exchanged with planet-planet redistribute energy-other animals absorb energy.

I.e. Reincarnation.

An example of energy is neither created nor destroyed.Just transformed.This can be seen as 'Renewable cyclical process'.

[08/06, 1:03 pm] Dr.Dinesh Datta: We can also argue that Gaia theory is totally wrong.And exact opposite is the case.

Life is a vast number of ordinary organic chemical reactions.It is easy to falsely perceive order,self sustainance,different organisms,self replication,tissues etc.whenever the observer is a small fraction of the resulting reactions himself,observing the while thing from inside.Its a perspective bias,watching the system create new systems that functionally resemble us

[08/06, 1:03 pm] Dr.Dinesh Datta: So,just metapsych and chill

[08/06, 2:21 pm] Dr Rakesh Biswas: The Sun is how one would see the cross section of a capillary from it's earth (adipocyte)?

[08/06, 2:22 pm] Dr.Dinesh Datta: That's an interesting way to look at it

[08/06, 2:23 pm] Dr Rakesh Biswas: Let's look more

[08/06, 2:28 pm] Dr.Dinesh Datta: Maybe we can look at it like this..The earth gives off it's own electromagnetic field,as living organisms do(our cells too)..akin to Warburg effect concept.

It also has a heated core,which we 'assume' is from lava that hasn't cooled,but the lava is circulating under earth's crust

[08/06, 2:33 pm] Dr.Dinesh Datta: Say,when mega simulations of artificial intelligence are placed on cloud technology in the supercomputer,games played by artifical intelligence are created.Likewise,supercomputers formed by quantum and other communications can occur in nature.Chemical signals,wind,DNA change,animal death etc occur in these.Information can be processed through data channels.Likewise neurons create information pathways in brain.It makes semiconductor and metal data buses in the computer.In other words,simulations can be made in nature,that is artificial/asynchronous intelligence simulations can be created in mobile phones,brains,our body and nanobots??

[08/06, 2:43 pm] Dr.Dinesh Datta: Take for example a river..It appears to have the perfect size,length,width,slope,inclination,branching etc etc given in environment and place it is located,so that it can manage perfectly the amount of water.Thus,it usually doesn't drain or overflows.It seems that it is always operating optimally.The question is-does river sustain itself?If river could think and observe like human,then for river,the answer is obviously yes.

Self sustainance(Vishnu) is a very complex topic because it's like trying to see our eyes with our own eyes.

Attributing things to supernatural forces should be the last resort.Gaia hypothesis is kinda like saying earth is God.Its a modified version of religion..

Or we can say something like...

Everything in life is supernatural..scientists are beginning to explain how the supernatural things have happened.Eventually they will find God?

Afterall they are explaining and learning everyday how He(God) put things together..And no one can look at their own eye.

Just need a reflection...Perhaps happens when mind becomes still..

[08/06, 2:45 pm] Dr.Dinesh Datta: Or we can say something like...earth is not a living organism,but has feedback loops.climate balance mechanisms,emergent properties and the biosphere specifically has many factors of symbiosis and originated in Abiogenesis

[08/06, 4:25 pm] Dr Rakesh Biswas: I'm interested in comparison simulations 

Cell and Earth 

Similarities internal and external

[08/06, 6:59 pm] Dr Rakesh Biswas: What's the temperature difference between the capillary (Sun) and the surface of the cell (Earth)?

[08/06, 7:11 pm] Dr Rakesh Biswas: A single people is a moving receptor on the cellular earth's surface

There are millions of people and other animals (moving receptors) on this earth's surface. Plants are static receptors on the cellular earth's surface. 

Each animal and plant receptors are again made up of trillion cells just like our universe and hence all these parallel universes!

[08/06, 7:12 pm] Dr.Dinesh Datta: That's an interesting way to look at it

[08/06, 7:31 pm] Dr Rakesh Biswas: It's infinitely spreading both ways. We are in an adipocyte of a single individual who is just one of the trillion individual in it's cell surface and so on till infinity 

Similarly our internal cellular receptors contain trillion cells